I have high serine and low glycine on tests and this supplement has been really calming to me with a similar effect to supplementing glycine. I made a mistake a year ago by overdosing on TMG (10 capsules a day for a week) and my THF is really low, recovery has been slow.
In my case my 23andme report show that my DHFR is normal, but I have t677t MTHFR, my homocysteine while taking Folic Acid and riboflavin was 9.5 a year ago, does this means that I can process FA and the B2 is compensating for my t677t?
Thanks for your reply, I uploaded the raw data to Promethease and my DHFR is normal, sorry for the confusion. But I’m still debating whether I can safely take folic acid in supplements while supplementing with B2 since I can’t tolerate Methylfolate or Folinic Acid.
The raw data from 23andme has very little genetic information - it contains only 0.033% of DNA, and there is high rate of errors also. So no wonder most of genes will look "without issues" - the genotyping method tests only about 700k predefined positions. It's not suitable for health investigations.
I wrote a post about this issue and compared with other methods:
I don’t know THF of any specific powder but sounds like high in general from this https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4711403/ which is why I was wondering if it’s a possible alternative to romaine?
Table 1 indicates it is 25% THF, which would be a good source assuming it is preserved in the powdering process and you get the equivalent of 100 grams of fresh leaves.
Anything can make things worse, so you should always be observing what something does for you empirically. However, romaine lettuce is pretty innocuous by most standards.
What I meant in my mind was, if you are aware and observed from your research, that there is a known way for a specific case where supplementing THF through romaine lettuce would cause a bottleneck, an improper function of the folate metabolism.
But I am guessing from your previous answer that you didn’t stumble upon a case like this, right ?
If it is juiced properly it should mostly be THF. If THF builds up at the expense of 5,10 it could favor too much glycine over serine, I suppose it might slow down SAMe production, conceivably. Too much lettuce could independently provide too much of something else, maybe potassium for some people.
I know this is not intended for human consumption, but do you know of any reason why it would be hazardous to health to take 500 micrograms orally? I didn't see any red flags in the material safety data sheet.
Question! Would not the action of chewing romaine lettuce well before swallowing also produce a similar effect to juicing? Perhaps not as intense, but if it is the mechanical action that makes the conversion...
I ask, because I believe the best nutritional intervention is the intervention that someone will actually do. Odds that effected individuals will go to the effort of juicing? Mediocre. Odds they can be convinced to set a goal to eat X number of salads in a week? Much higher.
Well I simply don't know the answer to that. It is certainly a LOT easier to throw lettuce in a vitamix for one minute and drink it than to chew it so thoroughly it becomes completely liquified, but as to whether it achieves the same thing I don't know.
I am homozygous for MTHFR and was told by my Naturopath to take methylfolate. However, out of curiosity I did more genetic testing thorough the DNA company and that report told me that methylfolate was not good for me and I should supplements with folinic acid instead because in a deficiency in the SMHT gene. Does this make sense to you?
No, but by default everyone should get folate from food, and the ideal supplement would be a blend of natural folate forms and the closest you can get to that is a mix of methylfolate and folinic acid.
Grok seems to suggest that L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate might be superior: "L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate, though, is a step further—it’s THF that’s already been methylated, making it the ready-to-roll version your body uses directly in the methylation cycle (e.g., turning homocysteine into methionine)."
The fact it's further along in the cycle is exactly why it can be harmful for some people. There are important pathways on the way to creating methylfolate that are skipped, which are involved in creating and processing several other nutrients.
Thank you for giving me an unexpected anxiety attack. This brings back my college days. Not so much the chemistry, but my fraternity days. Geez!
Thanks a lot for this. I always had the feeling that I dont quite get folate and this made it much clearer!
If folic acid can raise THF but the limitation is the slow speed of DHFR, can the unmethylated folate (from Citrus Lemon Extract) help?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078P41WG9/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=AQ9D9YX2TEHKA&psc=1
I have high serine and low glycine on tests and this supplement has been really calming to me with a similar effect to supplementing glycine. I made a mistake a year ago by overdosing on TMG (10 capsules a day for a week) and my THF is really low, recovery has been slow.
You'll have to find what the actual compound in this product is. I don't see it by glancing at the sales page.
Hi Chris do you have a lecture on interleukins and mmp’s and how they would affect collagen production?
In my case my 23andme report show that my DHFR is normal, but I have t677t MTHFR, my homocysteine while taking Folic Acid and riboflavin was 9.5 a year ago, does this means that I can process FA and the B2 is compensating for my t677t?
23andMe cannot show anything to be normal.
A snapshot in one condition cannot show what anything was doing.
3.2 mg total riboflavin (diet plus supplements) normalizes the effect of C677T.
Thanks for your reply, I uploaded the raw data to Promethease and my DHFR is normal, sorry for the confusion. But I’m still debating whether I can safely take folic acid in supplements while supplementing with B2 since I can’t tolerate Methylfolate or Folinic Acid.
As I said, 23andMe cannot show anything to be normal, ever, no matter where you upload it.
The raw data from 23andme has very little genetic information - it contains only 0.033% of DNA, and there is high rate of errors also. So no wonder most of genes will look "without issues" - the genotyping method tests only about 700k predefined positions. It's not suitable for health investigations.
I wrote a post about this issue and compared with other methods:
https://hormonesmatter.com/understanding-genetic-testing-methods/
Hi, have you any thoughts on Moringa powder as a source of THF?
Please post a link to the data on the THF content of this powder.
I don’t know THF of any specific powder but sounds like high in general from this https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4711403/ which is why I was wondering if it’s a possible alternative to romaine?
Table 1 indicates it is 25% THF, which would be a good source assuming it is preserved in the powdering process and you get the equivalent of 100 grams of fresh leaves.
thoughts on B6 rationing contributing to elevated serine and normal folate?
Could trying juicing romaine lettuce for the THF make things worse in any case ?
I don’t have access to those tests to see if I need it.
Anything can make things worse, so you should always be observing what something does for you empirically. However, romaine lettuce is pretty innocuous by most standards.
Thank you for your answer !
I think I didn’t ask properly.
What I meant in my mind was, if you are aware and observed from your research, that there is a known way for a specific case where supplementing THF through romaine lettuce would cause a bottleneck, an improper function of the folate metabolism.
But I am guessing from your previous answer that you didn’t stumble upon a case like this, right ?
If it is juiced properly it should mostly be THF. If THF builds up at the expense of 5,10 it could favor too much glycine over serine, I suppose it might slow down SAMe production, conceivably. Too much lettuce could independently provide too much of something else, maybe potassium for some people.
Sigma Aldrich sells tetrahydrofolic acid. 100 mg for $185. 65%+ purity
https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/sigma/t3125
I know this is not intended for human consumption, but do you know of any reason why it would be hazardous to health to take 500 micrograms orally? I didn't see any red flags in the material safety data sheet.
Hey, have you tried this?
They don't sell to individuals. Eating romaine lettuce works, though.
Is there a way to have a consultation with you? I have no idea how to find a doctor that talks about these things.
Only within the BioOpt program. https://bioopthealth.com
Question! Would not the action of chewing romaine lettuce well before swallowing also produce a similar effect to juicing? Perhaps not as intense, but if it is the mechanical action that makes the conversion...
I ask, because I believe the best nutritional intervention is the intervention that someone will actually do. Odds that effected individuals will go to the effort of juicing? Mediocre. Odds they can be convinced to set a goal to eat X number of salads in a week? Much higher.
Well I simply don't know the answer to that. It is certainly a LOT easier to throw lettuce in a vitamix for one minute and drink it than to chew it so thoroughly it becomes completely liquified, but as to whether it achieves the same thing I don't know.
I am homozygous for MTHFR and was told by my Naturopath to take methylfolate. However, out of curiosity I did more genetic testing thorough the DNA company and that report told me that methylfolate was not good for me and I should supplements with folinic acid instead because in a deficiency in the SMHT gene. Does this make sense to you?
No, but by default everyone should get folate from food, and the ideal supplement would be a blend of natural folate forms and the closest you can get to that is a mix of methylfolate and folinic acid.
I take a supplement from Life Extension that has L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate calcium salt in it. (It also has B12.)
https://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Vitamin-Vegetarian-Capsules/dp/B019YGJLNM
Could it be an absorbable version of THF?
This is methylfolate.
Grok seems to suggest that L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate might be superior: "L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate, though, is a step further—it’s THF that’s already been methylated, making it the ready-to-roll version your body uses directly in the methylation cycle (e.g., turning homocysteine into methionine)."
The fact it's further along in the cycle is exactly why it can be harmful for some people. There are important pathways on the way to creating methylfolate that are skipped, which are involved in creating and processing several other nutrients.