34 Comments
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gge23's avatar

Masterjohn is a nutritional research machine - thank you for sharing the fruits of your labors!

Sam's avatar

If you are taking supplemental calcium made from bone or eggshell (1000mg), should you take more k2 than one normally would? If so, how much?

Chris Masterjohn, PhD's avatar

No, you should meet your requirements for both nutrients.

Sam's avatar

Thank you

Jon's avatar

Is there such a thing as a K2 to calcium ratio?

For example, if one drinks 52oz of Fairlife skim milk daily to meet their protein and nutrient requirement, this is about 3000mg of calcium a day.

Would 100ug and 2mg of MK4 daily provide the same benefit of putting calcium in the right places? Or is the higher dose needed with higher calcium?

Chris Masterjohn, PhD's avatar

I don't know of any basis to suggest a ratio is important.

Matthew Copeland's avatar

Cold pressed canola oil has slightly less oleic acid than high oleic sunflower and safflower, but a 2 to 1 omega 6 to omega 3 ratio. High oleic sunflower and safflower have negligible omega 3, and thus a very poor 6/3 ratio.

John_09's avatar

So for MK-7, I'm taking Now Food supplement that has 180mcg of MenaQ7 and 5000IU of D3. Is that enough MK-7 for the D3? I saw a video the other day that suggested you need to take 400mcg if taking 5000IU of D3. That's thrown me for a bit of a loop.

Also, I wanted to buy a separate MK-4 supplement to take alongside the Now foods D3+K2, but am not sure if there are different types of MK-4 (synthetic, natural?) and/or which are the best ones. Am I just looking for one that has Menaquinone-4? Edit : Didn't read the article fully when I posted this. Seems there is only a synthetic form of MK-4 that is bioidentical. So for MK-4, can I just buy any reputable brand with the dose I wanted?

I was thinking about the Life Extension Super K, but not sure if having the K1 is needed and also the extra MK-7 on top of the 180mcg from the Now Foods one I'm already taking.

Was there a link for the other supplement reviews? I read in one of these articles there was, but couldn't find it.

And while I'm here, I haven't used Substack hardly at all and don't know how it all works. How do you access paid for articles? How much do they cost and how do you pay for them? Can someone explain it to me?

Thanks for the great articles and research you're doing.

Clairefishywatts@gmail.com's avatar

Thank you for this. We are just starting out on a journey of living with warfarin and it was especially helpful to see the difference between K1 and K2 as this had not been mentioned to us previously. Are there any papers or books you would recommend that provide advice on eating a consistent, measured amount of vitamin K whilst still getting the benefits of a varied diet. Everything we read is papers /research celebrating the importance of K, and can't find anything written from a "warfarin diet" perspective.

Jenn Hamilton's avatar

Do you know if there is any danger of taking K2 for someone with sarcoidosis? It seems that vitamin D supplements are discouraged for a person with sarcoidosis.

Chris Masterjohn, PhD's avatar

I don’t know of a reason to avoid K2.

gge23's avatar

I tried to find oxalate content of natto, but there were no studies or clear data on that particular soybean product. Using a bunch of soybean cultivar data and studies showing oxalate reduction via soaking, cooking, and fermentation of soybeans and other legumes with B. subtilis, I conservatively, and very roughly, estimated the following regarding total (insoluble + soluble) oxalate content in natto:

Soybeans, on average, have 3.5-5mg total oxalate per gram soybean

Oxalate content is cut by 50% after: soaking, discarding the soaked water, boiling for 2-3 hours, and discarding the boil water.

Oxalate content decreases by 8% (of original raw soybeans) per day of fermentation at 100-105 degrees F. 8% of 3.5-5mg is 0.28-0.4mg (per gram of soybean).

1 tablespoon of natto weighs about 15g, and contains roughly 154mcg K2.

Total oxalate content of 1 tablespoon of 24hr-ferment natto is roughly and conservatively 24-38mg. Total oxalate should reduce by 0.28-0.4mg for each additional 24hr of fermentation at 100-105 degrees F.

...

My more liberal estimate using one of the lowest-oxalate cultivars of soybean is 8mg total oxalate in 1 tablespoon of 24hr-ferment natto.

My most conservative estimate using the highest-oxalate cultivar of soybean is 45mg total oxalate in 1 tablespoon of 24hr-ferment natto.

Average of 8mg, 24mg, 38mg, and 45mg is about 29mg total oxalate in 1 tablespoon natto

...

I'm also emailing companies that make natto to see if they have their own lab data on oxalate content. Boiled lentils - according to Harvard's oxalate data - is low-oxalate. Could use a natto starter and do an experiment like this - https://www.reddit.com/r/fermentation/comments/ueqdde/great_success_with_brown_lentil_natto/

freyadog's avatar

no one researched the half life of diffent K2 forms?

Like MK4 has a short half life in the body. Like around 10hrs after ingesting not much is left.

https://www.skyclk.com/sup/UDBsupDetail.php?sup_name=Vitamin%20K2%20mk-7&cond_name=1-Bromopropane%20Toxicity&src=drv

Chris Masterjohn, PhD's avatar

False, this is half life in plasma.

freyadog's avatar

Oh thanks for pointing that out, great work!

Marta Spendowska, Painter's avatar

Chris, have you seen SuperK by Life Extension? K1: 1,500mcg K2MK4: 1,000mcg K2MK7: 100mcg The add ons are not fantastic, though. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Chris Masterjohn, PhD's avatar

Yes, I think the doses are too high for most people.

Maxstirner's avatar

Kefir: 13,4 µg Vitamin K2 per 100 g..

Kristen Christy's avatar

Hi Chris, what are the effects of vitamin K2 supplementation on someone with high Lp(a)? Thank you.

Chris Masterjohn, PhD's avatar

I don’t see how they are related.

Kristen Christy's avatar

High Lp(a) has been linked with blood clotting. I've been recommending lumbrokinase for the clot factor (and diet + time-released nicotinic acid for the Lp(a)), but I know some doctors recommend aspirin or an anti-coagulant. You discouraged K2 supplement for people on a blood thinner. If they're not on a blood thinner per se but have clotting potential due to the Lp(a), what would be your thoughts on that? Educationally speaking. Thanks.

Ali's avatar

ideal ratio of fat soluble vitamins???

Chris Masterjohn, PhD's avatar

Ratios are given in the Cliff Notes, see ebooks in the menu.

Mitch's avatar

There are some people who get heart palpitations when taking K2. Do you have any information on this (why K2 causes palpitations and what can be done to prevent it)?

Kelly A's avatar

did you include the link for all the supplement reviews? I don't see it and want to see if mine is isted. thanks

John_09's avatar

I can't find it either. I saw there was supposed to be a link for other supplement reviews, but I can't find one.