What an incredibly well-rounded article! The complexity of our biology is both fascinating and scary - especially when you notice things going out of balance. Thank you for the great work and, as always, looking forward to learning more.
These articles make me day, I do not exaggerate. Incredibly thorough and insightful. I see now how a backup in complex III could cause an adverse reaction to Coq10, but couldn’t the same be said for the transsulfuration pathway? If one has less than optimal levels of b6 or molybdenum, like you spoke about in your protein article, couldn’t that cause a reaction to Coq10 in someone who would normally benefit from it because that pathway is not working optimally? And that could cause another vicious loop because b6 is needed for copper absorption, which then backs up complex IV? It’s all so complicated but so fascinating.
Everything sounds so complex about nutrition,so many if this then maybe that or it could be this gene or that gene.very interesting if one wants to go down the rabbit hole but it makes me just say I give up,Russian Roulete comes to mind lol
Oh my god! I am affected by two things: Cipro (FQ antibiotics) and oxalates at the same time. I have issues with sulfur metabolism for sure but cannot find a genetic reason (my CBS is normal, MoCo formation normal, SUOX normal). I know my vitamins get destroyed (B1 and B6) and I had allergies and even nerve damage from sulfites!
I have noticed that if I eat carbs only (with very low protein like 40-50g), I start dumping oxalate and feeling like my oxidative stress (which is felt like tendon and muscle pain) is lower and I feel like a normal human being. But when I eat high protein, I start to get high OS (muscle+tendon pain) from even eating normal carbs and I need a few days to detoxify the accumulated sulfite (despite my genes being all normal and me taking molybdenum often).
Another thing for me I noticed is taking CoQ10 also increases OS (unlike literally anyone else affected by Cipro (FQ abx.)). I might be low on copper at the moment since I've been dumping a long time and taking copper also leads to high OS for me but I speculate that my issue is actually low CoQ10 (since I had reaction to CoQ10 from the very beginning of my flox journey since Nov. 3 2022) in the cells (blood tests show 1.0 ref. range 0.8-1.4 in absence of supplementation) and/or poor H2S (again due to sulfite metabolism disruption or manganese overload (had slightly high of 20.1 ref. range <18 in absence of supplementation of anything at all for ~35 days) clearance as Chris said in another post.
It did not make sense to me until I thought: perhaps oxalate, like other toxins, e.g. glyphosate, actually disturbs sulfite metabolsim (perhaps the body tries to avoid the reaction of sulfite->sulfate transformation because it is trying to gatekeep oxalate from being dumped when it does not want it to be or maybe oxalate impairs sulfite metabolism by itself).
Chris, I know you are a busy guy and I do not hope to get a reply from you but it would be great if you could advise me, I would appreciate it very much! I am also on the BioOpt list and I think I would be quite an interesting case for you. Every time I open your substack, I go like "wtf, does he know exactly what I'm struggling with right now?" In this way, I think that my issues specifically must be of high interest to you right now. I am from Europe but I am ready to fly to the US immediately (I have a visa for up to 6 months) or we could do it by distance. I have been trying to recover my health myself through learning biochemistry extensively and it seems to be working slowly, so I think it's a win-win for the both of us since I can share some insights that I have learned when biochemistry is so bare, especially related to Oxidative Stress and Oxalate Metabolism! Thank you for all you are doing for the people! You are really one of the best biochemistry-focused scientists on the internet!
Thanks Chris, I think we all appreciate your burst of short articles these past weeks. Please keep it up!
Quick Q on this one then some comments - you mention a connection about high Manganese impairing CoQ10 and the involvement of sulfite processes. What if you're low in both? Can it be deduced that high sulfites without enough moly be independently sufficient to cause both low levels?
I'm not enough of an expert to conclude anything with confidence but it is my bet that because of your previous work and the fact my HMG is near 0 I must be making plenty of CoQ10 but something is destroying it.
I ordered the PH strips + Moly which will be in soon and will trial your suggested experiments next week. The only thing that still perplexes me is the role of taurine. I don't eat/drink anything with taurine yet I'm at 100%ile which you say should cap the production of sulfites, but if sulfites are impairing both manga/coq10 with taurine at 100 could that suggest that taurine alone is not the answer? ATM I believe it all comes back to Moly but i will find out more next week and if useful will share my results.
Is the upper limit recommendation for manganese intake still 11 mg, as mentioned in the cheat sheet? I use a lot of oats, which are rich in manganese, and my daily intake is just 11 mg. HFEs are both CC and GG, so no effect, but TMPRSS6 heterogeneous increases total iron binding capacity.
And add on question, is taurine a good "protector" in a rich manganese intake?
Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but how do you generally try to treat sulfur toxicity once you decide that you think it's likely?
Obviously low sulfur diet, but what are some good supplements to experiment with that might help or other things?
Molybdenum, High dose CoQ10 or Riboflavin, L-carnitine, High dose b1, alpha-lipoic acid? Any good ones come to mind?
Is there a deeper root cause of this such as a nutrient deficiency or gut issue that could be resolved, or is this usually due to genes and best resolved with a megadose of something depending on the individual? If so, what are some supplements that have helped others that might be worth experimenting with?
I have high urinary sulfite and can't get it to go down despite the added molybdenum. I am homozygous for cbs 360 and homozygous for mthfr 677 and heterozygous for suox. I've been using the Mthfr protocol for two years and it's better, but I still have brain fog. Can I try taking taurine to reduce sulphites?
My ION+40 results showed my serum CoQ10 level at 2.35 mcg/mL, well above the reference range of 0.46-1.72. So I take that to mean I am unlikely to have a sulfite or manganese toxicity, right?
I heard coq10 can feed candida. I have severely low glutathione levels - but low dose glutathione supplements make me very sick. I suspect this is bc I have sulfur toxicity. I have severe mcas / histamine issues that developed almost over night 2.5 years ago and drs are no help. I used to take very high dose NAC almost everyday for 2 years. So I wonder if this is what caused my issues .
Chris you really go into depth about sulfur metabolism. What do you think about N-aceytl-cystein ethyl ester? An estered NAC that gets into the cell unimpeded. Normal NAC does almost nothing for my neurological system, but NACET clears me up with as low as 30mg.
I was taking the bottled dose of 100mg a couple times a week. And my testosterone tanked and started to have symptoms like neuropathy and fatigue. After reading your work, I cranked up my sulfide and sulfite too high. Molybdenum and Coq10 help but then I need more NACET to raise my glutathione that has been depleted by the sulfide and sulfate. When I take 30mg of NACET now, I feel good for a day but then get low testosterone symptoms and fatigue the next. I have to find the right balance between NACET, Coq10, molybdenum, which is harder than I thought.
Between this article, your writing on manganese, the similarities between manganese toxicity and Parkinson's, and the apparent* role of hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria in Parkinson's, I wonder if Parkinson's is also essentially sulfur toxicity.
What an incredibly well-rounded article! The complexity of our biology is both fascinating and scary - especially when you notice things going out of balance. Thank you for the great work and, as always, looking forward to learning more.
Terrific info. Does coq10 supplementation run a risk of depleting riboflavin?
These articles make me day, I do not exaggerate. Incredibly thorough and insightful. I see now how a backup in complex III could cause an adverse reaction to Coq10, but couldn’t the same be said for the transsulfuration pathway? If one has less than optimal levels of b6 or molybdenum, like you spoke about in your protein article, couldn’t that cause a reaction to Coq10 in someone who would normally benefit from it because that pathway is not working optimally? And that could cause another vicious loop because b6 is needed for copper absorption, which then backs up complex IV? It’s all so complicated but so fascinating.
Everything sounds so complex about nutrition,so many if this then maybe that or it could be this gene or that gene.very interesting if one wants to go down the rabbit hole but it makes me just say I give up,Russian Roulete comes to mind lol
You could read a novel instead :)
Oh my god! I am affected by two things: Cipro (FQ antibiotics) and oxalates at the same time. I have issues with sulfur metabolism for sure but cannot find a genetic reason (my CBS is normal, MoCo formation normal, SUOX normal). I know my vitamins get destroyed (B1 and B6) and I had allergies and even nerve damage from sulfites!
I have noticed that if I eat carbs only (with very low protein like 40-50g), I start dumping oxalate and feeling like my oxidative stress (which is felt like tendon and muscle pain) is lower and I feel like a normal human being. But when I eat high protein, I start to get high OS (muscle+tendon pain) from even eating normal carbs and I need a few days to detoxify the accumulated sulfite (despite my genes being all normal and me taking molybdenum often).
Another thing for me I noticed is taking CoQ10 also increases OS (unlike literally anyone else affected by Cipro (FQ abx.)). I might be low on copper at the moment since I've been dumping a long time and taking copper also leads to high OS for me but I speculate that my issue is actually low CoQ10 (since I had reaction to CoQ10 from the very beginning of my flox journey since Nov. 3 2022) in the cells (blood tests show 1.0 ref. range 0.8-1.4 in absence of supplementation) and/or poor H2S (again due to sulfite metabolism disruption or manganese overload (had slightly high of 20.1 ref. range <18 in absence of supplementation of anything at all for ~35 days) clearance as Chris said in another post.
It did not make sense to me until I thought: perhaps oxalate, like other toxins, e.g. glyphosate, actually disturbs sulfite metabolsim (perhaps the body tries to avoid the reaction of sulfite->sulfate transformation because it is trying to gatekeep oxalate from being dumped when it does not want it to be or maybe oxalate impairs sulfite metabolism by itself).
Chris, I know you are a busy guy and I do not hope to get a reply from you but it would be great if you could advise me, I would appreciate it very much! I am also on the BioOpt list and I think I would be quite an interesting case for you. Every time I open your substack, I go like "wtf, does he know exactly what I'm struggling with right now?" In this way, I think that my issues specifically must be of high interest to you right now. I am from Europe but I am ready to fly to the US immediately (I have a visa for up to 6 months) or we could do it by distance. I have been trying to recover my health myself through learning biochemistry extensively and it seems to be working slowly, so I think it's a win-win for the both of us since I can share some insights that I have learned when biochemistry is so bare, especially related to Oxidative Stress and Oxalate Metabolism! Thank you for all you are doing for the people! You are really one of the best biochemistry-focused scientists on the internet!
My e-mail is: zharkoffe@gmail.com
lol
did you ever figure it out? can you update?
Fascinating. The only supplement I know with sulfur in it is Sulforaphane. Would a CoQ10 supplement negate the positive effects of sulforaphane?
Selenium behaves like sulfur, just putting this out there for anyone reading.
Thanks Chris, I think we all appreciate your burst of short articles these past weeks. Please keep it up!
Quick Q on this one then some comments - you mention a connection about high Manganese impairing CoQ10 and the involvement of sulfite processes. What if you're low in both? Can it be deduced that high sulfites without enough moly be independently sufficient to cause both low levels?
I'm not enough of an expert to conclude anything with confidence but it is my bet that because of your previous work and the fact my HMG is near 0 I must be making plenty of CoQ10 but something is destroying it.
I ordered the PH strips + Moly which will be in soon and will trial your suggested experiments next week. The only thing that still perplexes me is the role of taurine. I don't eat/drink anything with taurine yet I'm at 100%ile which you say should cap the production of sulfites, but if sulfites are impairing both manga/coq10 with taurine at 100 could that suggest that taurine alone is not the answer? ATM I believe it all comes back to Moly but i will find out more next week and if useful will share my results.
Thank you so much Chris.
I clearly have anxiety the day after a large meat intake. This really sounds like me.
I'll definitely take CoQ10 (I was taking 50m, I suppose I'll take 250).
And I'll give it a try with taurine (I suppose 1000 mg)
Is the upper limit recommendation for manganese intake still 11 mg, as mentioned in the cheat sheet? I use a lot of oats, which are rich in manganese, and my daily intake is just 11 mg. HFEs are both CC and GG, so no effect, but TMPRSS6 heterogeneous increases total iron binding capacity.
And add on question, is taurine a good "protector" in a rich manganese intake?
quick question, what does HFE, CC & GG stand for, plus i have the same question, as i get in plus 11mg of manganese through berries & pineapple
HFEs are one of the genes involved in iron utilisation etc. CC and GG stands for my genotypes, that are both homozyous.
Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but how do you generally try to treat sulfur toxicity once you decide that you think it's likely?
Obviously low sulfur diet, but what are some good supplements to experiment with that might help or other things?
Molybdenum, High dose CoQ10 or Riboflavin, L-carnitine, High dose b1, alpha-lipoic acid? Any good ones come to mind?
Is there a deeper root cause of this such as a nutrient deficiency or gut issue that could be resolved, or is this usually due to genes and best resolved with a megadose of something depending on the individual? If so, what are some supplements that have helped others that might be worth experimenting with?
Hmmm, I keep thinking about this. Have you investigated sulforaphane in another article?
I have high urinary sulfite and can't get it to go down despite the added molybdenum. I am homozygous for cbs 360 and homozygous for mthfr 677 and heterozygous for suox. I've been using the Mthfr protocol for two years and it's better, but I still have brain fog. Can I try taking taurine to reduce sulphites?
My ION+40 results showed my serum CoQ10 level at 2.35 mcg/mL, well above the reference range of 0.46-1.72. So I take that to mean I am unlikely to have a sulfite or manganese toxicity, right?
I heard coq10 can feed candida. I have severely low glutathione levels - but low dose glutathione supplements make me very sick. I suspect this is bc I have sulfur toxicity. I have severe mcas / histamine issues that developed almost over night 2.5 years ago and drs are no help. I used to take very high dose NAC almost everyday for 2 years. So I wonder if this is what caused my issues .
same issues. did you manage to figure it out?
Are you saying that you think NAC caused your issues also?
Chris you really go into depth about sulfur metabolism. What do you think about N-aceytl-cystein ethyl ester? An estered NAC that gets into the cell unimpeded. Normal NAC does almost nothing for my neurological system, but NACET clears me up with as low as 30mg.
I was taking the bottled dose of 100mg a couple times a week. And my testosterone tanked and started to have symptoms like neuropathy and fatigue. After reading your work, I cranked up my sulfide and sulfite too high. Molybdenum and Coq10 help but then I need more NACET to raise my glutathione that has been depleted by the sulfide and sulfate. When I take 30mg of NACET now, I feel good for a day but then get low testosterone symptoms and fatigue the next. I have to find the right balance between NACET, Coq10, molybdenum, which is harder than I thought.
https://x.com/MarkPimentelMD/status/1793687773498744949
Between this article, your writing on manganese, the similarities between manganese toxicity and Parkinson's, and the apparent* role of hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria in Parkinson's, I wonder if Parkinson's is also essentially sulfur toxicity.
* https://www.sciencealert.com/parkinsons-may-be-caused-by-a-common-aquatic-bacterium