10 mg/day of biotin stopped the chronic, dull aching pain in my colon and salivary gland that had plagued me since I cut back on oxalates in April 2022.
I believe I unintentionally sabotaged my attempt to keep a maintenance level dose of oxalate in my diet. I decided to eat oatmeal with every meal which should have provided roughly 80 mg of oxalate per day. However, I was also drinking a cup of milk with each meal. The calcium likely bound enough of the oxalate to kickoff a period of dumping that lasted for a year, causing declining kidney function and what I believe is a salivary stone.
While I would not recommend people experiment on themselves, I wish we had some data on whether high-dose biotin and folate obviates the need to reduce oxalates gradually, maintaining just enough oxalate in the diet to prevent damage from dumping. I imagine it would.
Safely speeding up the oxalate removal process would be a huge quality of life improvement for people that suffer from high oxalates, given that Sally K. Norton says this can take a decade or more.
I’m not taking folate or biotin, but I have been on a carnivore diet for over three years (years prior to that it was nutrient-dense-focused Paleo and keto), which provides a lot of B vitamins. Last year I started getting oxalate crystals coming through my skin. A year later I’m still getting crystals coming through. In previous iterations of my paleo diet I had eaten a lot of oxalate foods.
I tried taking biotin in 1000, 500, and 250mcg and each time I felt absolutely horrible, like a horrendous flu. A better way to describe it is as though I felt like I had been poisoned for a day or two. I’m willing to suffer a bit to get these damn Oxalates out so figured I’d try that route but it was too much for me. I still get episodes of dumping occasionally and I deal with it as it’s not too bad like it used to be where I could barely function (like with extra biotin) but the rest of the time I feel pretty darn good now. Ever since I jumped on high dose thiamine, life seems to be worth living now.
My most recent oxalate dumping started when I downed a bowl of delicious blackeyed peas. It caught me off guard because I've been feeling pretty good for months, ie. no more migraines. It started with tingling in my feet and back, I started feeling "funny" and itchy, uh oh. In my experience and that of many others it seems dumping starts at some point, when the "something missing" shows up in supplement or dietary form and body has the energy currency to get it out of storage and down the drain. Ie. it may be months after starting a new regimen, like in my case I'm doing the RnB protocol per Greg Russell-Jones PhD about 4 months in (Facebook Group Understanding B12 Deficiency for more info). The way to mitigate dumping according to the group and my own experience is dilution, more hydration, potassium and magnesium, and more hydration. I'm taking large doses of one thing: Riboflavin. About 100mg per day in divided doses. Everything else is cheapo Winco Men's Under50 multivitamin, half a Jarrow B-Right, some bone minerals, one drop of topical active B12. But...I've been adding moderately more leafy greens, then the blackeyed peas...boom. I've felt "things" from extra K and molybdenum supps and the blackeyed peas dump felt similar, like little prickles in different old injuries, needle like sensations here and there, warmth and aching in my neck or an ankle. Stings, burns. Then it gets to be a bit much and a Dead Sea Salt bath (potassium and mag chloride and a bit of sulfate) is in order.
Please forgive me if I missed this in a previous post but...are you not using the Genova ION panel anymore? If not, is there a particular reason? Thank you.
I wonder if excessive amounts of biotin are counterproductive due to an excessive accumulation of biotin metabolites, as suggested in this paper: "Plasma Levels of Biotin Metabolites Are Elevated in Hemodialysis Patients with Cramps".
I suspect the muscle spasms I had that responded so dramatically to biotin were caused by low glycogen levels secondary to impaired gluconeogenesis secondary to oxalate toxicity. I suspect the biotin simply knocked off some of the oxalate that had been blocking the biotin-depedent enzymes responsible for gluconeogenesis. But maybe you are right that oxalate is not just being displaced but actually degraded. Dang, I hope you are right about that. Would a folic acid supplement work as well as THF in promoting the second step of the degradation pathway?
Thank you ! So - I take it there are articles which are unrestricted - available beyond the initial 24-48 hours ? There are some really helpful articles that would help a lot of people. I always encourage people to become a Masterpass member.
Hello Chris ! can you please tell me if the entire article is FREE to share ? I see it says the word FREE on top of the title . I want to share the entire article but hesitate to do it since I know most of these articles are only available to the public for 24-48 hours. Thank you so much
If oxalate is converted in the human body to formate, and if formate can also be converted to oxalate, then should somebody who is trying to maintain a low oxalate diet be concerned about the use of formic acid as a food preservative? And its unregulated use by beekeepers? And should one factor in the natural formate content of foods like apples, which are otherwise low in oxalate, when estimating total oxalate load?
10 mg/day of biotin stopped the chronic, dull aching pain in my colon and salivary gland that had plagued me since I cut back on oxalates in April 2022.
I believe I unintentionally sabotaged my attempt to keep a maintenance level dose of oxalate in my diet. I decided to eat oatmeal with every meal which should have provided roughly 80 mg of oxalate per day. However, I was also drinking a cup of milk with each meal. The calcium likely bound enough of the oxalate to kickoff a period of dumping that lasted for a year, causing declining kidney function and what I believe is a salivary stone.
While I would not recommend people experiment on themselves, I wish we had some data on whether high-dose biotin and folate obviates the need to reduce oxalates gradually, maintaining just enough oxalate in the diet to prevent damage from dumping. I imagine it would.
Safely speeding up the oxalate removal process would be a huge quality of life improvement for people that suffer from high oxalates, given that Sally K. Norton says this can take a decade or more.
I’m not taking folate or biotin, but I have been on a carnivore diet for over three years (years prior to that it was nutrient-dense-focused Paleo and keto), which provides a lot of B vitamins. Last year I started getting oxalate crystals coming through my skin. A year later I’m still getting crystals coming through. In previous iterations of my paleo diet I had eaten a lot of oxalate foods.
I tried taking biotin in 1000, 500, and 250mcg and each time I felt absolutely horrible, like a horrendous flu. A better way to describe it is as though I felt like I had been poisoned for a day or two. I’m willing to suffer a bit to get these damn Oxalates out so figured I’d try that route but it was too much for me. I still get episodes of dumping occasionally and I deal with it as it’s not too bad like it used to be where I could barely function (like with extra biotin) but the rest of the time I feel pretty darn good now. Ever since I jumped on high dose thiamine, life seems to be worth living now.
My most recent oxalate dumping started when I downed a bowl of delicious blackeyed peas. It caught me off guard because I've been feeling pretty good for months, ie. no more migraines. It started with tingling in my feet and back, I started feeling "funny" and itchy, uh oh. In my experience and that of many others it seems dumping starts at some point, when the "something missing" shows up in supplement or dietary form and body has the energy currency to get it out of storage and down the drain. Ie. it may be months after starting a new regimen, like in my case I'm doing the RnB protocol per Greg Russell-Jones PhD about 4 months in (Facebook Group Understanding B12 Deficiency for more info). The way to mitigate dumping according to the group and my own experience is dilution, more hydration, potassium and magnesium, and more hydration. I'm taking large doses of one thing: Riboflavin. About 100mg per day in divided doses. Everything else is cheapo Winco Men's Under50 multivitamin, half a Jarrow B-Right, some bone minerals, one drop of topical active B12. But...I've been adding moderately more leafy greens, then the blackeyed peas...boom. I've felt "things" from extra K and molybdenum supps and the blackeyed peas dump felt similar, like little prickles in different old injuries, needle like sensations here and there, warmth and aching in my neck or an ankle. Stings, burns. Then it gets to be a bit much and a Dead Sea Salt bath (potassium and mag chloride and a bit of sulfate) is in order.
Please forgive me if I missed this in a previous post but...are you not using the Genova ION panel anymore? If not, is there a particular reason? Thank you.
I wonder if excessive amounts of biotin are counterproductive due to an excessive accumulation of biotin metabolites, as suggested in this paper: "Plasma Levels of Biotin Metabolites Are Elevated in Hemodialysis Patients with Cramps".
I suspect the muscle spasms I had that responded so dramatically to biotin were caused by low glycogen levels secondary to impaired gluconeogenesis secondary to oxalate toxicity. I suspect the biotin simply knocked off some of the oxalate that had been blocking the biotin-depedent enzymes responsible for gluconeogenesis. But maybe you are right that oxalate is not just being displaced but actually degraded. Dang, I hope you are right about that. Would a folic acid supplement work as well as THF in promoting the second step of the degradation pathway?
Is it true that high dose B5 due to its role as a co-factor in Formyltertahydrofolate Dehydrogenase would be helpful for detoxifying oxalate?
Thank you ! So - I take it there are articles which are unrestricted - available beyond the initial 24-48 hours ? There are some really helpful articles that would help a lot of people. I always encourage people to become a Masterpass member.
Hello Chris ! can you please tell me if the entire article is FREE to share ? I see it says the word FREE on top of the title . I want to share the entire article but hesitate to do it since I know most of these articles are only available to the public for 24-48 hours. Thank you so much
If oxalate is converted in the human body to formate, and if formate can also be converted to oxalate, then should somebody who is trying to maintain a low oxalate diet be concerned about the use of formic acid as a food preservative? And its unregulated use by beekeepers? And should one factor in the natural formate content of foods like apples, which are otherwise low in oxalate, when estimating total oxalate load?
Chris, so we need biotin, folate , maganese and THF?
What are the amounts to be used? Of biotin / maganese and folate? tHF