I tried green lentils (molybdenum) for the first time in my life this past week (I’m an adult). Felt euphoric the first day and still good the next. I’ve been eating lots of protein for the past few years. Thanks for the tip!
I just recently read a paper where threonine restriction alone was significant in stimulating ...hepatoprotectivity. Also tryptophan. BUT again, MOUSE study. You seem confident that the biochemical explanation is sufficiently analogous to the human...but I notice you didn't make any qualifying remarks about how well the results actually would translate. In fact, you seem to cast doubt that methionine restriction per se is of any value! I guess I still have a lot of reading ahead of me on this subject, b/c that's news to me
Mice are very similar in the basics of their metabolism. They can be very different with certain nuances. But what’s known about the enzymes makes these results make total sense for mice and humans. For the reasons I stated, that does not translate into these diets being good.
The problem with the study is not that it’s in mice. It’s that it looks narrowly at one specific application without comparing it to other likely much better tools to achieve the purpose.
Would you expect the release of cystine from body tissues to lead to muscle wasting if the high demand for glutathione was chronic or acutely elevated?
If so, could that also elevate glutamate levels, further exacerbating high glutamate levels from the production of S-sulfocysteine?
This reminds me a study where they looked at how eating pure carbs (like sweet coffee or cookies or bread) in the morning would be the worst idea, or the worst idea after any fasting period, and probably why the cartilage and joints in elderly are destroyed - it's obviously better to just continue fasting and break down your bodily cysteine:
"A 3‐h continuation of fasting caused a marked reduction in serum sulphate levels, whereas ingestion of 75 g of glucose in the absence of protein resulted in doubling the reduction.
This suggests that fasting and ingestion of protein‐free calories may produce periods of chondroitin undersulphation that could affect osteoarthritis." -
Chris, do you think the reason the FMD pulled the most homocysteine out of the methylation pathway and into the transsulfuration pathway is because it created a greater need for glutathione because of increased oxidative stress? If so, can you speculate on why there was greater ox.stress?
Why do you think it wasn't as dramatic with the CR diet? Wouldn't they both have a similar need for pyruvate? One could argue the CR diet might actually have produced a greater need for pyruvate since apparently the FMD was isocaloric (otherwise it would have been a CR diet)?
sorry if i misinterpreted the article, im quite young n naive, but would this suggest having an isocaloric, sufficient carb diet, with enough glycine to balance out methionine etc. would be the way to go for optimal health & immune system function, (& would supplementing NAC during fasting periods, calorie restrictions, or even in the conditions i stated above be valid?)
Really great, thanks. Other than keeping molybdenum status good and overall energy intake balanced, are there other ways to reduce S-sulfocysteine? I’m also wondering about if there’s a link between S-sulfocysteine and glycine? Thanks again
I tried green lentils (molybdenum) for the first time in my life this past week (I’m an adult). Felt euphoric the first day and still good the next. I’ve been eating lots of protein for the past few years. Thanks for the tip!
You're welcome!
I just recently read a paper where threonine restriction alone was significant in stimulating ...hepatoprotectivity. Also tryptophan. BUT again, MOUSE study. You seem confident that the biochemical explanation is sufficiently analogous to the human...but I notice you didn't make any qualifying remarks about how well the results actually would translate. In fact, you seem to cast doubt that methionine restriction per se is of any value! I guess I still have a lot of reading ahead of me on this subject, b/c that's news to me
Mice are very similar in the basics of their metabolism. They can be very different with certain nuances. But what’s known about the enzymes makes these results make total sense for mice and humans. For the reasons I stated, that does not translate into these diets being good.
The problem with the study is not that it’s in mice. It’s that it looks narrowly at one specific application without comparing it to other likely much better tools to achieve the purpose.
Would you expect the release of cystine from body tissues to lead to muscle wasting if the high demand for glutathione was chronic or acutely elevated?
If so, could that also elevate glutamate levels, further exacerbating high glutamate levels from the production of S-sulfocysteine?
This reminds me a study where they looked at how eating pure carbs (like sweet coffee or cookies or bread) in the morning would be the worst idea, or the worst idea after any fasting period, and probably why the cartilage and joints in elderly are destroyed - it's obviously better to just continue fasting and break down your bodily cysteine:
"A 3‐h continuation of fasting caused a marked reduction in serum sulphate levels, whereas ingestion of 75 g of glucose in the absence of protein resulted in doubling the reduction.
This suggests that fasting and ingestion of protein‐free calories may produce periods of chondroitin undersulphation that could affect osteoarthritis." -
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1798290/
That would be a good thing if you have any dysregulation of the sulfur pathway leading to excessive H2S, sulfite, or S-sulfocysteine.
so when breaking a fast we should either opt for carbs ALONG SIDE protein, or just minimize carbs n go heavy on the fats & protein??
Chris, do you think the reason the FMD pulled the most homocysteine out of the methylation pathway and into the transsulfuration pathway is because it created a greater need for glutathione because of increased oxidative stress? If so, can you speculate on why there was greater ox.stress?
No, I think it was from periodic carbohydrate deprivation, which drives catabolism of cysteine as a source of pyruvate.
Why do you think it wasn't as dramatic with the CR diet? Wouldn't they both have a similar need for pyruvate? One could argue the CR diet might actually have produced a greater need for pyruvate since apparently the FMD was isocaloric (otherwise it would have been a CR diet)?
I don't think the FMD was isocaloric on the fasting days, but regardless on the fasting days the carbohydrate restriction was more intense.
sorry if i misinterpreted the article, im quite young n naive, but would this suggest having an isocaloric, sufficient carb diet, with enough glycine to balance out methionine etc. would be the way to go for optimal health & immune system function, (& would supplementing NAC during fasting periods, calorie restrictions, or even in the conditions i stated above be valid?)
Really great, thanks. Other than keeping molybdenum status good and overall energy intake balanced, are there other ways to reduce S-sulfocysteine? I’m also wondering about if there’s a link between S-sulfocysteine and glycine? Thanks again
I’ll be coming out with a comprehensive sulfur resource soon.
Eagerly awaiting this CMJ. You are prolific these days and it is SO appreciated!
Beste Chris, wat kost een lidmaatschap?
En is praktisch vanuit Nederland?
Thanks,
Kind regards,
Patricia