this is interesting & worrisome at the same time, i’ve been mega’in vitamin C for years since i grew up with pauling & cathcart; but i’m always open to new ideas & data, i do not wish to create problems in my body; i take the vit C in the hopes of heart disease prevention…
Fascinating. My doc suspected that I might have autonomic nervous system dysfunction. My symptoms were more in line with histamine intolerance though, but symptoms do seem to overlap.
It would be intriguing to know if/how this may have shortened Andrew Saul’s life. Known for megadosing ascorbic acid, but just recently passed away reportedly from congestive heart failure just before turning 69 years old. His work has influenced many of us, but his passing has me rethinking everything I thought I knew about vitamin C. I have a personal interest in vitamin C as it relates to copper, etc because after high dosing vitamin C (and zinc unfortunately) in an attempt to avoid covid, I got covid and became terribly ill, followed by a long slow recovery which involved a sudden, new onset, crippling histamine intolerance. I’m better now, but it took months to get back to being able to eat normally again. Beef liver, B vitamins, and a low histamine diet helped. But I was still taking 8-10g of ascorbic acid daily since I’d read that it is a natural antihistamine.
Now I worry that I might have created my own problems inadvertently by provoking a copper deficiency. Diamine oxidase (DAO) is needed to process histamine in the gut apparently, and copper is necessary for producing DAO. I discovered too late that supplementing too much vitamin C and zinc drive down copper. Ugh! It was Andrew Saul’s work that convinced me that vitamin C was safe and beneficial in ongoing high doses, with no drawbacks!
I have severeal of Andrew Saul's books. I too was following his advice. I am nearly 78 and relatively healthy, and I used to think Andrew Saul would live a lot more than me as he took all the necessary vitimans and supplements. However his early death at only 69 years has me scratching my head! As I too was taking high doses of vitamin C and also Niacin. Recently I read in one of Dr. Mecorla's blogs that high doses of Naicin can also be detrimental to health. Therefore, could it be that Andrew Saul's death is due to high doses of vitamins and supplements?
Thanks for taking the time to put data-dense things together in such a readable way. While trying to find research on phenylalanine hydroxylase, I only found an old study [ PMC1177509 ] which had stated that, to get a 50% reduction in phenylalanine hydroxylase activity, you'd need a whopping 270 mM of ascorbate.
But I'm under the impression that oral doses of vitamin C (all the way up to bowel tolerance) can only get your plasma levels of up to about 0.22 mM -- 1,000-fold lower than required to cut enzyme activity by 50%.
The study I cite in the CoQ10 article showed that 2 mM inhibits its activity by 78%, and in my vitamin C article linked to right after that I cite papers showing 3 grams once gets you to 1.7 mM and 5 grams intravenously gets you to 5.6 mM.
I was unaware of any research showing millimolar plasma levels after oral dosing, with the highest estimate I could find (0.220 mM) being that from Padayatty, 2004 [ PMID: 15068981 ]
I changed it to say that "phenylalanine hydroxylase is strongly inhibited by the concentrations of vitamin C achieved by intravenous use, and probably mildly inhibited by repeated use of oral vitamin C to bowel tolerance."
If there aren't any inborn errors of metabolism and no significant food allergies/issues you should be able to hit all your vitamin / mineral targets for the week with food. Vitamin C specifically is very easy to get from food.
YEs...I have IBS and so that is one of the reasons I take supplements.... I am concerned about not absorbing all my nutrients, etc..... not sure if you have had the chance to look at the above substacks concerning supplements....
I fixed my IBS with activated charcoal, I was able to eat beans again. I try to take as few supps as possible, but I'm back on Epsom salt baths thanks to all the sulfur info coming out. I think I have issues with sulfites but we need sulfate which can be stolen by our gut bacteria.
Thanks! The relevant studies don't dose people according to bodyweight and there's no evidence that weighing more decreases your likelihood of generating oxalate so I think it's best to say that 200-400 milligrams is the safest area by default for adults, and if you want to alter that for children you could normalize to 2000 Cal or 70 Kg just as a rule of thumb.
Thanks! I was thinking in terms of kids. There’s a very popular no food dye lollipop that the kids eat with 125mg vit C. Sounds like probably too much for a 30lb kid
endocrine disrupting pesticfides a re the herd of elephants in the room ....the effect all life support systems ,,, BY DESIGN ... THAT " IS" THEIR MODE OF ACTION IE TO DISRUPT EVERYTHING ... good GOD PLEASE HELP US ALL RETURN TO GOODNESS AND TRUTH
Does PQQ help CoQ10?.. Like I mentioned before Astaxanthin does penetrate both lipid layers and has both higher amounts of vitamin C and CoQ10 per gram than the separate counterparts.. I do not need to wait for some entity to run an expensive RCT as I have already gained huge rewards to turn my NE around after 40 years of constant tiredness.. a very happy 69 year old.. one last thing.. my heart tracings are excellent resting pulse of 51 bpm and 120/70 bp.. after years of high blood pressure and erratic rhythms.. just want to give hope to anyone struggling to turn CFS around.
Something I see pretty regularly in nutrition conversations is that sugar prevents the absorption of vitamin C in the body and lowers the immune system. Is there any evidence to support this or is this one of those myths that becomes fact the more it is written?
Something I see pretty regularly in nutrition conversations is that sugar prevents the absorption of vitamin C in the body. Is there any evidence to support this or is this one of those myths that becomes fact the more it is written?
I'd really appreciate an answer to this ( that I asked on Feb 17) :
"What I want to know is - and this is never addressed in articles about how much Vit C you should take - what about taking a 1000 mg TIMED-RELEASE Vit C twice a day ?"
Yet another great article. I’ve recently read that vitamin c and Coq10 can “regenerate” eachother by swapping electrons and in light of this article it’s clear they interact. Does this mean it works the other way?
If I were to take 400mg a day, when would you recommend taking it? I am especially interested in relation to exercise. Vit C has a short half-life so possibly before exercise, but also i hear it takes a while to absorb so possibly even the night before?
Not sure if you are still responding to this thread Chris, but would be interested in your take on megadosing in light of flu / virus / cold. You say above 'if you need it' - is that such a situation? Thanks
this is interesting & worrisome at the same time, i’ve been mega’in vitamin C for years since i grew up with pauling & cathcart; but i’m always open to new ideas & data, i do not wish to create problems in my body; i take the vit C in the hopes of heart disease prevention…
thank you for all you do (and share)
Vitamin C is also a cofactor for Dopamine beta hydroxylase with copper. intriguing.
Fascinating. My doc suspected that I might have autonomic nervous system dysfunction. My symptoms were more in line with histamine intolerance though, but symptoms do seem to overlap.
It would be intriguing to know if/how this may have shortened Andrew Saul’s life. Known for megadosing ascorbic acid, but just recently passed away reportedly from congestive heart failure just before turning 69 years old. His work has influenced many of us, but his passing has me rethinking everything I thought I knew about vitamin C. I have a personal interest in vitamin C as it relates to copper, etc because after high dosing vitamin C (and zinc unfortunately) in an attempt to avoid covid, I got covid and became terribly ill, followed by a long slow recovery which involved a sudden, new onset, crippling histamine intolerance. I’m better now, but it took months to get back to being able to eat normally again. Beef liver, B vitamins, and a low histamine diet helped. But I was still taking 8-10g of ascorbic acid daily since I’d read that it is a natural antihistamine.
Now I worry that I might have created my own problems inadvertently by provoking a copper deficiency. Diamine oxidase (DAO) is needed to process histamine in the gut apparently, and copper is necessary for producing DAO. I discovered too late that supplementing too much vitamin C and zinc drive down copper. Ugh! It was Andrew Saul’s work that convinced me that vitamin C was safe and beneficial in ongoing high doses, with no drawbacks!
I have severeal of Andrew Saul's books. I too was following his advice. I am nearly 78 and relatively healthy, and I used to think Andrew Saul would live a lot more than me as he took all the necessary vitimans and supplements. However his early death at only 69 years has me scratching my head! As I too was taking high doses of vitamin C and also Niacin. Recently I read in one of Dr. Mecorla's blogs that high doses of Naicin can also be detrimental to health. Therefore, could it be that Andrew Saul's death is due to high doses of vitamins and supplements?
I do wish that someone close to him would address this. Or someone well versed in orthomolecular medicine. One doesn’t know what to believe anymore.
Does anybody know whether he had 1 or more mRNA covid shots?
I don’t know, but it seems unlikely.
Thanks for taking the time to put data-dense things together in such a readable way. While trying to find research on phenylalanine hydroxylase, I only found an old study [ PMC1177509 ] which had stated that, to get a 50% reduction in phenylalanine hydroxylase activity, you'd need a whopping 270 mM of ascorbate.
But I'm under the impression that oral doses of vitamin C (all the way up to bowel tolerance) can only get your plasma levels of up to about 0.22 mM -- 1,000-fold lower than required to cut enzyme activity by 50%.
Am I missing something?
The study I cite in the CoQ10 article showed that 2 mM inhibits its activity by 78%, and in my vitamin C article linked to right after that I cite papers showing 3 grams once gets you to 1.7 mM and 5 grams intravenously gets you to 5.6 mM.
Wonder what effect those liposomal vitamin c formulations are having in reality?
Thanks.
I was unaware of any research showing millimolar plasma levels after oral dosing, with the highest estimate I could find (0.220 mM) being that from Padayatty, 2004 [ PMID: 15068981 ]
I changed it to say that "phenylalanine hydroxylase is strongly inhibited by the concentrations of vitamin C achieved by intravenous use, and probably mildly inhibited by repeated use of oral vitamin C to bowel tolerance."
I changed it again to say "and probably mildly inhibited by high oral doses on the order of 3 grams."
You are right and I was wrong. I will revise the article. Thank you.
Has anyone seen this stack?
https://chemtrails.substack.com/p/vitamin-c-is-mold-corn-syrup-chemicals
They are against all supplements...I found it through this substack that is highlighting it...... https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/how-can-you-ascentain-how-bad-synthetic
Makes me want to throw out all my supplements...pls, advise...... thank you!
If there aren't any inborn errors of metabolism and no significant food allergies/issues you should be able to hit all your vitamin / mineral targets for the week with food. Vitamin C specifically is very easy to get from food.
So the issue is almost everyone is heterozygous for inborn errors of metabolism and it likely impacts their nutrient requirements.
YEs...I have IBS and so that is one of the reasons I take supplements.... I am concerned about not absorbing all my nutrients, etc..... not sure if you have had the chance to look at the above substacks concerning supplements....
I fixed my IBS with activated charcoal, I was able to eat beans again. I try to take as few supps as possible, but I'm back on Epsom salt baths thanks to all the sulfur info coming out. I think I have issues with sulfites but we need sulfate which can be stolen by our gut bacteria.
This has me rethinking everything also. I don’t know what to think.
Yup...😨
Awesome as always! Whats the upper limit of what’s safe to take daily per kg bodyweight?
Thanks! The relevant studies don't dose people according to bodyweight and there's no evidence that weighing more decreases your likelihood of generating oxalate so I think it's best to say that 200-400 milligrams is the safest area by default for adults, and if you want to alter that for children you could normalize to 2000 Cal or 70 Kg just as a rule of thumb.
Thanks! I was thinking in terms of kids. There’s a very popular no food dye lollipop that the kids eat with 125mg vit C. Sounds like probably too much for a 30lb kid
endocrine disrupting pesticfides a re the herd of elephants in the room ....the effect all life support systems ,,, BY DESIGN ... THAT " IS" THEIR MODE OF ACTION IE TO DISRUPT EVERYTHING ... good GOD PLEASE HELP US ALL RETURN TO GOODNESS AND TRUTH
Truth bombs like this blow the narrative out the testubes.
Hi Chris - is the plasma vitamin C test useful?
what would Linus Pauling say to this ,,, turning in his gave with his Nobel award in chemistry
Does PQQ help CoQ10?.. Like I mentioned before Astaxanthin does penetrate both lipid layers and has both higher amounts of vitamin C and CoQ10 per gram than the separate counterparts.. I do not need to wait for some entity to run an expensive RCT as I have already gained huge rewards to turn my NE around after 40 years of constant tiredness.. a very happy 69 year old.. one last thing.. my heart tracings are excellent resting pulse of 51 bpm and 120/70 bp.. after years of high blood pressure and erratic rhythms.. just want to give hope to anyone struggling to turn CFS around.
Something I see pretty regularly in nutrition conversations is that sugar prevents the absorption of vitamin C in the body and lowers the immune system. Is there any evidence to support this or is this one of those myths that becomes fact the more it is written?
Something I see pretty regularly in nutrition conversations is that sugar prevents the absorption of vitamin C in the body. Is there any evidence to support this or is this one of those myths that becomes fact the more it is written?
I'd really appreciate an answer to this ( that I asked on Feb 17) :
"What I want to know is - and this is never addressed in articles about how much Vit C you should take - what about taking a 1000 mg TIMED-RELEASE Vit C twice a day ?"
Yet another great article. I’ve recently read that vitamin c and Coq10 can “regenerate” eachother by swapping electrons and in light of this article it’s clear they interact. Does this mean it works the other way?
Redox reaction go in one direction unless the concentrations change dramatically.
If I were to take 400mg a day, when would you recommend taking it? I am especially interested in relation to exercise. Vit C has a short half-life so possibly before exercise, but also i hear it takes a while to absorb so possibly even the night before?
Separated in to two doses at least five hours apart.
Not sure if you are still responding to this thread Chris, but would be interested in your take on megadosing in light of flu / virus / cold. You say above 'if you need it' - is that such a situation? Thanks
Please see my "Staying Immune Through the Winter/How to Not Get Sick" ebook.