Thank you so much for writing this! I started lactoferrin about 2 years ago, beginning at 300 mg and going up to 1 g. And I wish I didn’t! After a year I started getting joint pains, and circulation issues in my fingers when I woke. And I started getting really exhausted.
I checked out iron overload symptoms and that’s what it was. I stopped taking it 2 weeks ago and my joints and the circulation issues are almost gone.
I’ve been taking Egcg/and molybdenum to excrete it. Wow, scary, I thought I researched it enough...but pubmed has nothing on you😊
This is very interesting because i was taking Lactoferrin a while back after concluding a likely iron overload status, and it did seem to clear a bunch of symptoms including a nearly lifelong skin bronzing issue.
But what i still don't fully understand is whether iron overload means too much iron in the blood, or cells, or both? Meaning, is iron overload potentially a form of functional iron deficiency if there is too much in the blood because it is not absorbed into the cells? (forgive my ignorance, i am probably using wrong terms here, i am simplifying to try to ask the correct question which i am not sure what it is, i just remember reading something about this somewhere and now i can't find it).
And if this is the case, then what is the difference between iron overload and an iron deficiency and would they manifest similarly? Would an overload be both the symptoms of not having enough, plus symptoms of it accumulating where it shouldn't?
I think if you read Understanding Iron a few times and let it sit and digest a bit it will make sense.
Iron overload means too much iron in the body.
If you have too much in the blood and not enough in the cells you can have oxidative stress in the blood and deficiency in the cells but that's not iron overload, it's a disruption in iron metabolism with the primary effects being cellular deficiency.
I’m older with injuries and was battling inflammation. Then I got the vax causing more inflammation and lots of other issues.
Long story short… I read about lactoferrin benefits and since I started drinking more green tea I thought I should try it.
I felt a difference right away with one dose of 100mg!!!! I waited a few days and tried again with great effect. After approximately 2-3 weeks I could feel no effects. I now only take it once a week and it’s still helpful.
I’m scared to take it more often than 1-2x a week. lol. I’m not very informed on its use.
Ok thanks. I think that clarifies it a bit more but I'll give Understanding Iron another read, i know it's always intricate and never quite simple and straight forward. Much appreciated, and thanks for continuing to expand regularly on all the nuances of all these complex topics!
In summary, is it correct that to treat iron deficiency that is due only to a deficiency in diet (and not inflammation) apo-lactoferrin would be detrimental while holo-lactoferrin would be beneficial?
However, studies such as https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622023872 indicate that apo-lactoferrin significantly increases iron absorption. This shouldn't be the case unless it's typical to have inflammation-driven iron deficiency, if I understand the article correctly.
Lactoferrin is in milk to facilitate iron absorption. I would use a study in adults to assess the relevance to adult iron deficiency. And look at the doses. Over a gram of lactoferrin to a baby with 1.5 mg iron.
Thank you, Chris. I read the protocol before posting. As I understood it, the protocol recommends holo-lactoferrin when inflammation is the cause of functional iron deficiency, just as in this article. However, the protocol does not discuss whether lactoferrin might be useful where inflammation is not the cause of iron deficiency, such as in pregnancy (where the demand for iron increases from the first trimester from 3–4 mg/day to 12–15 mg/day at the end of pregnancy) or after great blood loss.
What's confusing me is the gray area you mention and the effects of apo-lactoferrin compared to other types of lactoferrin. Or have I misunderstood how likely you think apo-lactoferrin vs natural vs holo-lactoferrin will chelate iron rather than shuttle it into cells? I am trying to understand how "safe" is it to supplement with a higher dose of apo-lactoferrin vs natural vs holo-lactoferrin where inflammation is not the cause of the deficiency.
This lactoferrin post states:
"It’s more likely, but not gauranteed, that lactoferrin is helping iron move into cells."
"The results of this trial [with lactoferrin with 20-30% saturation] implied that lactoferrin could improve anemia of chronic disease driven by inflammatory sequestration of iron by lowering IL-6, and thereby making iron more available."
"If lactoferrin did not survive digestion [i.e. apo-lactoferrin] but the fragments retained iron-binding capacity, each 100 milligrams could theoretically bind to 3.57 milligrams of non-heme iron. This would allow a vegan consuming 14 milligrams of iron per day to render that completely unavailable using 400 milligrams of apolactoferrin taken with meals."
"So the probability favors lactoferrin making iron more bioavailable by 1) suppressing IL=6 and 2) repeatedly shuttling iron atoms into cells."
"Since there is a possibility that [apo-]lactoferrin is degraded to fragments that remain unabsorbed but chelate dietary iron, and a possibility that some endogenous iron could be moved out of the body into the bile, there is a gray area for interpretation."
I've not been able to find any adult studies comparing the forms of lactoferrin. This paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8389615/ discusses different studies, most of which used either saturated or native lactoferrin. For example: "In all trials native (iron saturated in 10%–20%) bovine LTF (BLTF) was used as oral tablets at daily doses of 25–250 mg that correspond merely to about 8–80 µg iron doses."
That being said, the paper also discusses inflammatory phases of pregnancy:
"Pregnancy may be divided into three immunologically different phases: the first trimester with inflammatory processes conditioned by proinflammatory cytokines and chemokines (IL-6, IL-8, MCP-1, RANTES, G-CSF), the second trimester with silencing of inflammatory reactions thanks to anti-inflammatory cytokines (IL-4, IL-10, IL-13) and the third trimester with the inflammation intensified again due to the activity of proinflammatory factors conditioning the proper course of delivery and childbirth."
The paper concludes:
"The efficacy of LTF in the treatment of anemia in pregnancy strongly suggests that absolute iron deficiency is not the sole reason for occurrence of anemia, but rather iron functional immobilization and lack of its availability for cellular metabolic function and hematopoiesis. Such a state results from chronic inflammation (anemia of inflammation), in particular in women with chronic diseases (inherited thrombophilia or type 2 diabetes). Substantial improvement of hematologic parameters following supplementation with LTF resulted in a decrease of proinflammatory IL-6 levels, which, in turn, led to modulation of hepcidin concentrations and FPN activity [117]. In this way, following the silencing of the inflammatory response, LTF normalizes iron homeostasis [45,71,89,90].
"The literature data conclude that iron supplementation in ID/IDA treatment is not a priority, but rather restoration of systemic homeostasis by correct diagnosis and appropriate treatment of inflammatory states of various origin. Of note, iron supplementation in anemia is of low efficiency and even deleterious because of increase in ROS formation and promotion of inflammation and pathogen growth. Thus, benefits of iron supplementation may be only achieved after normalization of overall iron metabolism. Application of LTF may perfectly fit the procedure of correction of iron metabolism. Importantly, LTF may be applied to prevent and treat anemia without the risk of toxicity often encountered with inorganic iron supplementation.
"In parallel, pregnant women taking LTF as a source of iron should benefit from other actions of LTF. These encompass prebiotic properties of LTF in the gastrointestinal and genital tract, protection of the mucous layer of the gastrointestinal tract, promotion of bone formation and wound healing, normalization of sugar and lipid metabolism, as well as hypotensive, antistress and analgesic actions."
So maybe the type of lactoferrin does not matter too much after all?
Chris, you’ve said in a few places that the non-alpo Lactoferrin with iron can only be found in one source in Italy. This one looks like it might be an alternative? I have no idea how to vet it or their terminology match, they call it “native” Lactoferrin:
There’s an FAQ at the bottom, here is one of the quotes:
“Native lactoferrin retains its iron-binding capability, offering superior antimicrobial activity and immune support compared to its iron-depleted counterpart, apoferrin.”
Immuno Pro is a US product that I learned from Dr Eades during COVID. U Mich screened about 30-40 molecules that could help for COVID prevention and infection. Lactoferrin came out on top.
Thank you so much for writing this! I started lactoferrin about 2 years ago, beginning at 300 mg and going up to 1 g. And I wish I didn’t! After a year I started getting joint pains, and circulation issues in my fingers when I woke. And I started getting really exhausted.
I checked out iron overload symptoms and that’s what it was. I stopped taking it 2 weeks ago and my joints and the circulation issues are almost gone.
I’ve been taking Egcg/and molybdenum to excrete it. Wow, scary, I thought I researched it enough...but pubmed has nothing on you😊
I just read about increased IL-6 in the brain being associated with autism. I guess lactoferrin should help with that then
So to cut to the chase, it sounds like lactoferrin supplementation might be counterproductive for people with hemochromatosis?
Might not apo-lactoferrin (but not holo-lactoferrin) help by chelating the iron?
I read a doctors list of what he would take to prevent cancer or if he had cancer.
How does lactoferrin help stop or slow cancer? Is the doctor list wrong? I can’t find a good answer.
EMFs could also be contributing - as they bind to iron, which is magnetic:
https://romanshapoval.substack.com/i/139666175/how-do-mitochondria-produce-energy
I looked at that, and did not come away with an understanding of how a wave or field can bind to iron.
Hi Chris, thanks for taking a look.
You can think of lodestone/magnetite,which when brought close to a paperclip, will attract that piece of metal.
Does that make sense?
Here's a link to the study describing the genotoxic fenton reaction with iron by EMF:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1155/2014/198609
Ionic iron (Fe++) has no ferromagnetic properties.
Maybe the iron being a magnetic element might influence the movement of cells under an imposed field?
This is very interesting because i was taking Lactoferrin a while back after concluding a likely iron overload status, and it did seem to clear a bunch of symptoms including a nearly lifelong skin bronzing issue.
But what i still don't fully understand is whether iron overload means too much iron in the blood, or cells, or both? Meaning, is iron overload potentially a form of functional iron deficiency if there is too much in the blood because it is not absorbed into the cells? (forgive my ignorance, i am probably using wrong terms here, i am simplifying to try to ask the correct question which i am not sure what it is, i just remember reading something about this somewhere and now i can't find it).
And if this is the case, then what is the difference between iron overload and an iron deficiency and would they manifest similarly? Would an overload be both the symptoms of not having enough, plus symptoms of it accumulating where it shouldn't?
I think if you read Understanding Iron a few times and let it sit and digest a bit it will make sense.
Iron overload means too much iron in the body.
If you have too much in the blood and not enough in the cells you can have oxidative stress in the blood and deficiency in the cells but that's not iron overload, it's a disruption in iron metabolism with the primary effects being cellular deficiency.
Chris
Oooooh. Thanks. This answer really helped me.
I’m older with injuries and was battling inflammation. Then I got the vax causing more inflammation and lots of other issues.
Long story short… I read about lactoferrin benefits and since I started drinking more green tea I thought I should try it.
I felt a difference right away with one dose of 100mg!!!! I waited a few days and tried again with great effect. After approximately 2-3 weeks I could feel no effects. I now only take it once a week and it’s still helpful.
I’m scared to take it more often than 1-2x a week. lol. I’m not very informed on its use.
Thanks!
Can you explain what the significance of the green tea is here ? Was it the oxalates in the tea that was causing some issues ?
Ok thanks. I think that clarifies it a bit more but I'll give Understanding Iron another read, i know it's always intricate and never quite simple and straight forward. Much appreciated, and thanks for continuing to expand regularly on all the nuances of all these complex topics!
In summary, is it correct that to treat iron deficiency that is due only to a deficiency in diet (and not inflammation) apo-lactoferrin would be detrimental while holo-lactoferrin would be beneficial?
However, studies such as https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622023872 indicate that apo-lactoferrin significantly increases iron absorption. This shouldn't be the case unless it's typical to have inflammation-driven iron deficiency, if I understand the article correctly.
Please see the iron deficiency protocol:
https://chrismasterjohnphd.substack.com/p/my-iron-deficiency-protocol?utm_source=publication-search
Lactoferrin is in milk to facilitate iron absorption. I would use a study in adults to assess the relevance to adult iron deficiency. And look at the doses. Over a gram of lactoferrin to a baby with 1.5 mg iron.
Thank you, Chris. I read the protocol before posting. As I understood it, the protocol recommends holo-lactoferrin when inflammation is the cause of functional iron deficiency, just as in this article. However, the protocol does not discuss whether lactoferrin might be useful where inflammation is not the cause of iron deficiency, such as in pregnancy (where the demand for iron increases from the first trimester from 3–4 mg/day to 12–15 mg/day at the end of pregnancy) or after great blood loss.
What's confusing me is the gray area you mention and the effects of apo-lactoferrin compared to other types of lactoferrin. Or have I misunderstood how likely you think apo-lactoferrin vs natural vs holo-lactoferrin will chelate iron rather than shuttle it into cells? I am trying to understand how "safe" is it to supplement with a higher dose of apo-lactoferrin vs natural vs holo-lactoferrin where inflammation is not the cause of the deficiency.
This lactoferrin post states:
"It’s more likely, but not gauranteed, that lactoferrin is helping iron move into cells."
"The results of this trial [with lactoferrin with 20-30% saturation] implied that lactoferrin could improve anemia of chronic disease driven by inflammatory sequestration of iron by lowering IL-6, and thereby making iron more available."
"If lactoferrin did not survive digestion [i.e. apo-lactoferrin] but the fragments retained iron-binding capacity, each 100 milligrams could theoretically bind to 3.57 milligrams of non-heme iron. This would allow a vegan consuming 14 milligrams of iron per day to render that completely unavailable using 400 milligrams of apolactoferrin taken with meals."
"So the probability favors lactoferrin making iron more bioavailable by 1) suppressing IL=6 and 2) repeatedly shuttling iron atoms into cells."
"Since there is a possibility that [apo-]lactoferrin is degraded to fragments that remain unabsorbed but chelate dietary iron, and a possibility that some endogenous iron could be moved out of the body into the bile, there is a gray area for interpretation."
I've not been able to find any adult studies comparing the forms of lactoferrin. This paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8389615/ discusses different studies, most of which used either saturated or native lactoferrin. For example: "In all trials native (iron saturated in 10%–20%) bovine LTF (BLTF) was used as oral tablets at daily doses of 25–250 mg that correspond merely to about 8–80 µg iron doses."
That being said, the paper also discusses inflammatory phases of pregnancy:
"Pregnancy may be divided into three immunologically different phases: the first trimester with inflammatory processes conditioned by proinflammatory cytokines and chemokines (IL-6, IL-8, MCP-1, RANTES, G-CSF), the second trimester with silencing of inflammatory reactions thanks to anti-inflammatory cytokines (IL-4, IL-10, IL-13) and the third trimester with the inflammation intensified again due to the activity of proinflammatory factors conditioning the proper course of delivery and childbirth."
The paper concludes:
"The efficacy of LTF in the treatment of anemia in pregnancy strongly suggests that absolute iron deficiency is not the sole reason for occurrence of anemia, but rather iron functional immobilization and lack of its availability for cellular metabolic function and hematopoiesis. Such a state results from chronic inflammation (anemia of inflammation), in particular in women with chronic diseases (inherited thrombophilia or type 2 diabetes). Substantial improvement of hematologic parameters following supplementation with LTF resulted in a decrease of proinflammatory IL-6 levels, which, in turn, led to modulation of hepcidin concentrations and FPN activity [117]. In this way, following the silencing of the inflammatory response, LTF normalizes iron homeostasis [45,71,89,90].
"The literature data conclude that iron supplementation in ID/IDA treatment is not a priority, but rather restoration of systemic homeostasis by correct diagnosis and appropriate treatment of inflammatory states of various origin. Of note, iron supplementation in anemia is of low efficiency and even deleterious because of increase in ROS formation and promotion of inflammation and pathogen growth. Thus, benefits of iron supplementation may be only achieved after normalization of overall iron metabolism. Application of LTF may perfectly fit the procedure of correction of iron metabolism. Importantly, LTF may be applied to prevent and treat anemia without the risk of toxicity often encountered with inorganic iron supplementation.
"In parallel, pregnant women taking LTF as a source of iron should benefit from other actions of LTF. These encompass prebiotic properties of LTF in the gastrointestinal and genital tract, protection of the mucous layer of the gastrointestinal tract, promotion of bone formation and wound healing, normalization of sugar and lipid metabolism, as well as hypotensive, antistress and analgesic actions."
So maybe the type of lactoferrin does not matter too much after all?
what protocol do I use if my Fe is 160, Fer is 50 and TIBC is 438?
Hi, the two iron protocols have the criteria to use them in the beginning including how to use the labs to decide on whether to progress.
Chris, you’ve said in a few places that the non-alpo Lactoferrin with iron can only be found in one source in Italy. This one looks like it might be an alternative? I have no idea how to vet it or their terminology match, they call it “native” Lactoferrin:
https://www.lactoferrin.co/products/300mg-lactoferrin-powder-capsule
What on this link makes you think that?
There’s an FAQ at the bottom, here is one of the quotes:
“Native lactoferrin retains its iron-binding capability, offering superior antimicrobial activity and immune support compared to its iron-depleted counterpart, apoferrin.”
Seems so then, I would ask the company.
Super interesting. I guess being adapted to thrive off bovine milk could be a kind of superpower....provided it's not pasteurized!
Immuno Pro is a US product that I learned from Dr Eades during COVID. U Mich screened about 30-40 molecules that could help for COVID prevention and infection. Lactoferrin came out on top.
It's 5gms of which is Lactoferrin 200mg