This is very interesting to me as a retired GP, who worked with university students with mental health issues. By about the year 2000, I had realised that SSRI withdrawal reactions could be severe, and the standard advice of withdrawal over a couple of weeks was hopelessly inadequate for those who had been on them a while. I started advising something similar to the protocol you describe, with very gradual withdrawal over many weeks to months, depending on how long they'd been taking them, and the individual response to gradual dose reduction. Sometimes I changed them to fluoxetine, which was available as a liquid and so was more flexible.
The tragedy is that we had very little else to offer people who were depressed. There was some CBT available ( long wait time, restricted number of sessions). It would have been very helpful to have had an alternative approach such as your depression protocol. Thank you for developing it.
I was on Paroxetine for 5 years (18 to 23) and experienced the most horrific life ordeal when I came off of them. Became suicidal, paranoid, extremely stressed etc. I had to use a liquid solution to do so. I did not know how I survived this to be honest. This is what lead me to translate and read the "Walsh Protocol" to French researchers. Following Paxil taper, I fell back into depression and then was deemed "treatment resistant". I had to totally turn my back to conventional medicine, go off sugar, increase magnesium and B6, check my methylation status, read biochemistry a lot. Thanks for your work Dr Masterjohn. Your content is part of what saved my life. SSRI "withdrawal" is greatly underestimated by doctors. This is terrible and no Human should have to ever go through that. Never.
I have been very badly damaged by these drugs and due to a bad reaction ended up being poly drugged which has led to many side effects. I am on a very slow taper programme which is going to take years. Given how many are on them, it’s only going to get worse.
I was only on SSRIs for a couple months. Thought i was tapering slowly, but became manic. Wondered if I had an undiagnosed bipolar disorder- but no, it was only the withdrawl side effects. Not the worst withdrawl symptom.
The term "discontinuation syndrome" does a disservice to those who experience severe withdrawal in coming off antidepressants and other psychotropic drugs. It's a self-serving euphemism coined by Eli Lily.
I don't think it's a case of merely wanting to avoid stigma. If people understood that psych drugs can cause withdrawals as severe or worse than street drugs, that might be less inclined to start them in the first place.
Here's another one. Also, I don't know anyone in the patient harmed community who prefers the term discontinuation syndrome. If anything, they actively dislike it.
I was on Prozac for 24 years. Was prescribed by my GP when I was 21 for a mild depression that I was in once graduating university and not having a career plan. I tried multiple times to get off it over the years but couldn’t handle the withdrawal (which no doctor or pharmacist would admit that that is what I was experiencing, they kept telling me it was proof that I needed the drug, that I had a chemical imbalance). I finally was able to get off it at the age of 45. I was extremely fit, practiced yoga, ate organic food and was at a place in my life where I felt I could take on this difficult endeavour. I had no idea what I was in for and didn’t have any guidance. I tapered for only two months. The following two years were pure hell, but I was determined and didn’t give up. My formally fit and energetic self who used to run 8km 2 or 3 times a week, weight train and practice yoga could now hardly walk 1 km! Any amount of activity wiped me out. I had so much pain in my hips and in my feet! If I went shopping at Costco, my feet would throb for hours. I woke every morning with my feet throbbing. I was extremely emotional but it was nice to truly feel again. It was like the years of emotional numbing came flooding back. I was thankful to find an online community called “Inner Compass: The Withdrawal Project”……this helped me immensely! It was the only place at the time that validated what I was experiencing. I am now very vocal to all my family and friends about the dangers of SSRIs and that I would never wish them on my worst enemy. Honestly, the way doctors hand them out like candy is criminal, in my opinion. I am so thankful that this information is finally seeing the light of day.
I tried to taper off of Effexor, but it just stopped working for my body. The taper wasn’t working. I was in full withdrawal, regardless of what I did. By day four I thought I would die. I was laying on the floor praying. I had somebody do Emotion Code on me from a distance and I was able to get up and function. But I was extremely sick for almost 2 years after trying to recover my body. That was in 2012. Sometimes I still have an occasional brain zap.
I couldn’t. Doctors told me that was the smallest I could get was 75mg. Which were beads inside. I tried taking one bead out a day but I was so sick anyway I had to just stop.
I tried tapering off Effexor using chemist's and gp's advice; didn't work. I found an old article online by K. Phelps, MD, who said to transition to fluoxetine and then taper off from it. It worked.
You need to get the liquid form of Xanax, a pharmacy can compound it. Then using a syringe you can reduce by 5-10% the first month. Each month after that you should be reducing by less because your brain will become a lot more sensitive. You want to avoid wd symptoms. Tapering should be based off of how you feel if it's too fast then hold at the current dose, possibly even going back up. Some people can taper fast while others have to go extremely slow.
If I've been on zoloft for 25 years, the way I read this is it probably does not make sense for me to go off it. My time, I finally tapered off. I'd be 72 and would have to deal with all the potential withdrawal symptoms along the way. Is there something I'm missing?
Been on sertraline for 25 years 72 years old. I decided to get off cold turkey twice in my early years and am amazed that I survived. I went back on them and tolerated them fairly well( who's to say because I never really became anxiety free for the whole time I have been on them), but I always wanted off of the Zoloft. I started tapering my 100mg dose this springtime going from 100 to 75 to 50 to 37.5 to 25 by the end of September. At that time I went to 12.5 and two weeks later fell into a big funk. Very depressed, anxious etc. I think that the big drop from 25 to 12.5 was too much and that I should have at that point gone to a liquid and commenced tapering at 10% reduction. Everything thing i have read(surviving antidepressants. Com) , insists that the reduction should always be 10% but I thought I knew better but now I know I should have sticked to the plan. I am now back to 37.5 and will stay there until springtime next year. I have a really bad intolerance of darkness and suffer from SAD every year at this time. I am working with a psychiatrist who is well respected but seems to not put as much belief into the ten percent protocol as I do.
At high doses, there is a risk of serotonin syndrome when combined with SSRI medication, but at low doses, this is not an issue, and it makes tapering much easier and faster.
Sounds about right. Two years on two years to get off in my case. This was back in 2007 when nobody believed the side effects. I used a nail file to get off of Paxil. And even going that slowly every few weeks when I would reduce my dose, I would have multiple days of reactions. Brain zaps, visual disturbances , panic attacks, etc., etc..
For those who are attempting this, it did get better overtime. I did do a saliva cortisol test and I wasn’t producing any during that time. So I worked with a naturopath to supplement different things. I also feel like it really depleted me so for anyone going through a withdrawal I would really focus on nutrition . Stress management. Rest. Understand that the emotions that have been suppressed are now coming back into full range and that is also something you need to learn to cope with again. It’s a journey and you can do it. I began the journey 18 years ago and I’m still here but it’s something you need to recommit to every day.
This is very interesting to me as a retired GP, who worked with university students with mental health issues. By about the year 2000, I had realised that SSRI withdrawal reactions could be severe, and the standard advice of withdrawal over a couple of weeks was hopelessly inadequate for those who had been on them a while. I started advising something similar to the protocol you describe, with very gradual withdrawal over many weeks to months, depending on how long they'd been taking them, and the individual response to gradual dose reduction. Sometimes I changed them to fluoxetine, which was available as a liquid and so was more flexible.
The tragedy is that we had very little else to offer people who were depressed. There was some CBT available ( long wait time, restricted number of sessions). It would have been very helpful to have had an alternative approach such as your depression protocol. Thank you for developing it.
I was on Paroxetine for 5 years (18 to 23) and experienced the most horrific life ordeal when I came off of them. Became suicidal, paranoid, extremely stressed etc. I had to use a liquid solution to do so. I did not know how I survived this to be honest. This is what lead me to translate and read the "Walsh Protocol" to French researchers. Following Paxil taper, I fell back into depression and then was deemed "treatment resistant". I had to totally turn my back to conventional medicine, go off sugar, increase magnesium and B6, check my methylation status, read biochemistry a lot. Thanks for your work Dr Masterjohn. Your content is part of what saved my life. SSRI "withdrawal" is greatly underestimated by doctors. This is terrible and no Human should have to ever go through that. Never.
I have been very badly damaged by these drugs and due to a bad reaction ended up being poly drugged which has led to many side effects. I am on a very slow taper programme which is going to take years. Given how many are on them, it’s only going to get worse.
I was only on SSRIs for a couple months. Thought i was tapering slowly, but became manic. Wondered if I had an undiagnosed bipolar disorder- but no, it was only the withdrawl side effects. Not the worst withdrawl symptom.
The term "discontinuation syndrome" does a disservice to those who experience severe withdrawal in coming off antidepressants and other psychotropic drugs. It's a self-serving euphemism coined by Eli Lily.
Post a link to Eli’s role please.
Grammatically it doesn’t mean anything different.
It’s claimed to be used to avoid stigma associated with drugs of choice and addiction.
I don't think it's a case of merely wanting to avoid stigma. If people understood that psych drugs can cause withdrawals as severe or worse than street drugs, that might be less inclined to start them in the first place.
Here's another one. Also, I don't know anyone in the patient harmed community who prefers the term discontinuation syndrome. If anything, they actively dislike it.
https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/01/researchers-antidepressant-withdrawal-not-discontinuation-syndrome/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant_discontinuation_syndrome
I was on Prozac for 24 years. Was prescribed by my GP when I was 21 for a mild depression that I was in once graduating university and not having a career plan. I tried multiple times to get off it over the years but couldn’t handle the withdrawal (which no doctor or pharmacist would admit that that is what I was experiencing, they kept telling me it was proof that I needed the drug, that I had a chemical imbalance). I finally was able to get off it at the age of 45. I was extremely fit, practiced yoga, ate organic food and was at a place in my life where I felt I could take on this difficult endeavour. I had no idea what I was in for and didn’t have any guidance. I tapered for only two months. The following two years were pure hell, but I was determined and didn’t give up. My formally fit and energetic self who used to run 8km 2 or 3 times a week, weight train and practice yoga could now hardly walk 1 km! Any amount of activity wiped me out. I had so much pain in my hips and in my feet! If I went shopping at Costco, my feet would throb for hours. I woke every morning with my feet throbbing. I was extremely emotional but it was nice to truly feel again. It was like the years of emotional numbing came flooding back. I was thankful to find an online community called “Inner Compass: The Withdrawal Project”……this helped me immensely! It was the only place at the time that validated what I was experiencing. I am now very vocal to all my family and friends about the dangers of SSRIs and that I would never wish them on my worst enemy. Honestly, the way doctors hand them out like candy is criminal, in my opinion. I am so thankful that this information is finally seeing the light of day.
How can you acheive this without genetic sequencing?
I tried to taper off of Effexor, but it just stopped working for my body. The taper wasn’t working. I was in full withdrawal, regardless of what I did. By day four I thought I would die. I was laying on the floor praying. I had somebody do Emotion Code on me from a distance and I was able to get up and function. But I was extremely sick for almost 2 years after trying to recover my body. That was in 2012. Sometimes I still have an occasional brain zap.
How did your dose reduction compare to the longest versions given here?
I couldn’t. Doctors told me that was the smallest I could get was 75mg. Which were beads inside. I tried taking one bead out a day but I was so sick anyway I had to just stop.
I think you’d need to work with a compounding pharmacy?
This was 2012. I was just sharing what happened to me then
I tried tapering off Effexor using chemist's and gp's advice; didn't work. I found an old article online by K. Phelps, MD, who said to transition to fluoxetine and then taper off from it. It worked.
How do you tapper from a half MG .50 of zanax ?
Probably something similar to this.
You need to get the liquid form of Xanax, a pharmacy can compound it. Then using a syringe you can reduce by 5-10% the first month. Each month after that you should be reducing by less because your brain will become a lot more sensitive. You want to avoid wd symptoms. Tapering should be based off of how you feel if it's too fast then hold at the current dose, possibly even going back up. Some people can taper fast while others have to go extremely slow.
If I've been on zoloft for 25 years, the way I read this is it probably does not make sense for me to go off it. My time, I finally tapered off. I'd be 72 and would have to deal with all the potential withdrawal symptoms along the way. Is there something I'm missing?
Hi Chris, will your protocol help with tapering off a Noradrenergic and Specific Serotonergic Antidepressant? (Remeron/mirtazapine)
Chris, What do you know about Ketamine treatments? My shrink is very much a proponent and is very well known in the Ketamine world.
Hope you can respond to my question.
It seems to me that Ketamine information would be right up your alley. Steve j
Been on sertraline for 25 years 72 years old. I decided to get off cold turkey twice in my early years and am amazed that I survived. I went back on them and tolerated them fairly well( who's to say because I never really became anxiety free for the whole time I have been on them), but I always wanted off of the Zoloft. I started tapering my 100mg dose this springtime going from 100 to 75 to 50 to 37.5 to 25 by the end of September. At that time I went to 12.5 and two weeks later fell into a big funk. Very depressed, anxious etc. I think that the big drop from 25 to 12.5 was too much and that I should have at that point gone to a liquid and commenced tapering at 10% reduction. Everything thing i have read(surviving antidepressants. Com) , insists that the reduction should always be 10% but I thought I knew better but now I know I should have sticked to the plan. I am now back to 37.5 and will stay there until springtime next year. I have a really bad intolerance of darkness and suffer from SAD every year at this time. I am working with a psychiatrist who is well respected but seems to not put as much belief into the ten percent protocol as I do.
For decades, I have helped patients taper SSRI medication using a low dose of this type of supplement:
https://carbsyndrome.com/product/carb-22/
At high doses, there is a risk of serotonin syndrome when combined with SSRI medication, but at low doses, this is not an issue, and it makes tapering much easier and faster.
Too bad it uses folic acid instead of folate
I agree. That's why I also take L-methyl folate.
From what I’ve read folic acid blocks the folate receptors 😑
It is not that simple.
Sounds about right. Two years on two years to get off in my case. This was back in 2007 when nobody believed the side effects. I used a nail file to get off of Paxil. And even going that slowly every few weeks when I would reduce my dose, I would have multiple days of reactions. Brain zaps, visual disturbances , panic attacks, etc., etc..
For those who are attempting this, it did get better overtime. I did do a saliva cortisol test and I wasn’t producing any during that time. So I worked with a naturopath to supplement different things. I also feel like it really depleted me so for anyone going through a withdrawal I would really focus on nutrition . Stress management. Rest. Understand that the emotions that have been suppressed are now coming back into full range and that is also something you need to learn to cope with again. It’s a journey and you can do it. I began the journey 18 years ago and I’m still here but it’s something you need to recommit to every day.
Do these principles and tapering processes apply to pregabalin? I'm currently trying a slow taper off of it.